2435

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Submission Number
2435
Participant
Delilah MacGillivray
Submission date
Main Submission Automated Transcript

SUBMISSION IN RESPONSE TO INDIGENOUS VOICE CO-DESIGN REPORT AND
PROCESS

DELILAH MACGILLIVRAY (NEE DOMIC) _ 29 APR 21

POSITION (Where we are now.)
Personal and Professional Context

I was born and grew up on Darumbal Country Rockhampton, Central Queensland (CQ) strongly identifying
with my mother’s Kalkutungu and my father’s South Sea Islander ancestry.

I am still traumatised today when I think of my Mother’s stories of living under the Aboriginal Protection of Opium
Act 1897 (QLD) having to be taken off her traditional lands in north-west Queensland to Palm Island as a nine
year old; having to go to the Police Station in Hughenden as an 18 year old to order her clothes because she
didn’t get paid her wages; and then as a 65 year old not having a birth certificate to prove who she was so that
she could get the pension. She said, “Delilah I’m not a number, I knew my parents”. It feels almost as if it was
yesterday.

My diverse 32 years in the public service included working in a combination of mainstream and Indigenous
identified positions with Federal and State agencies in urban, regional and remote locations across Australia.
Portfolios and functions included education, housing, defence, accommodation, human and community services,
transport, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs, sport and recreation, child safety, women, seniors,
multicultural affairs, homelessness, regional planning and community recovery, whole of government
coordination, project and contract management and research. This work also required working with the non-
government and corporate sectors. I travelled extensively across Australia, working centrally from Canberra
and then regionally from CQ in Aboriginal communities and Torres Strait Islander communities, therefore, I feel
qualified to provide a considered response.

Government Context

Despite significant investment in public institutions, policies, programs and research in the past thirty years,
governments have failed to reduce high levels of disadvantage in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander
communities and the trend continues.

History shows that we have seen the creation of many institutions set up to provide a combination of strategic
advice, programs and services to meet the needs of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, only to be
abolished at the whim of consecutive governments of the day. We have also seen legislation written overnight
as with the Northern Territory Emergency Response (NTER) and COVID. Both seemingly in response to
community and national interest. The NTER’s discriminatory legislation had no consultation with Aboriginal or
Torres Strait Islander peoples and with COVID, parties such as GPs claimed they were also being left out of the
process and that their voices weren’t being heard. By contrast, showing the value of Indigenous managed and
controlled responses, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health services are leading the way in keeping their
communities safe from COVID.

As a public servant I saw different iterations of legislation, policies, programs, including vast numbers of pilots
which came and went with no commitment to achieving sustainable outcomes.

Indigenous Voice Co-Design

At the Rockhampton 8 Apr 21 National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) Voice Co-Design consultation
which Mick Gooda facilitated, I reminded attendees of the many government-driven processes (both Federal and
State) that had gone before, particularly impacting on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples on the
ground. Examples include, but are not limited to, Partnerships Queensland; Meeting Challenges, Making Choices;
bi-lateral agreements; Local Indigenous Partnership Agreements (LIPA); whole of government coordination; CQ
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission (ATSIC) Regional Council Plan; Mutual Obligation
Agreements; and the Office of Indigenous Policy Coordination (OIPC) Engagement Maps.

The Engagement Maps undertaken between Nov-Dec 2004 are of interest because the Federal Government
asked, “When the government comes to talk to you, who do you want to represent you?”. George Vilaflor (a
lawyer) facilitated the processes across CQ and Wide-Bay Burnett from Rockhampton to Winton in the west
and south to Eidsvold. (See attached CQ Community Engagement Maps.) Surprise, surprise, ATSIC was abolished
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SUBMISSION IN RESPONSE TO INDIGENOUS VOICE CO-DESIGN REPORT AND
PROCESS

DELILAH MACGILLIVRAY (NEE DOMIC) _ 29 APR 21 in June 2005. The writing was on the wall. These government-driven processes which I witnessed first-hand
between 2000 and 2012, were mirrored across Australia. If nothing else, it reflects stories being told over and
over to no avail.

One might ask what the government, mostly driven through the Federal government and the Council of
Australian Governments (COAG) has learnt from these processes. It is important not to forget that these
government-driven processes involved intensive engagement with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples
who gave up many hours to provide information about their issues, needs and aspirations (always voluntary,
never paid for their time). Many of the reports from these consultations are lost in the bowels of public sector
archives, never to be seen again. Nothing learnt. Elders who contributed to these processes gone. Newer
generations treading water and drowning from the weight of government compliance and incompetent
leadership. Voices not being heard or acted upon. Groundhog Day.

Benefits and Disbenefits of Local, Regional and National Voice in Co-Design Report

• There are benefits to local and regional voices, however, there should be a clear ‘line of sight’ to the
national voice and back to the ground.

The 13 First Nations culturally mandated regional dialogues say Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander
community controlled and led organisations and peak bodies do not represent their voices on the
ground.

The attached Engagement Maps provide evidence of how Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples
want to be heard and represented which reflects the strength and diversity of those communities.

• Many of the models from the past (ATSIC) and present (Empowered Communities) are resource
intensive with significant financial investment and take time, both of which governments tend not to
factor into upfront planning of legislation, program, policy and budgetary design. Urban, regional, remote
and cultural factors also need to be budgeted. Hence the need for a systemic mechanism such as
constitutional reform to drive the process ensuring full implementation and learning is not impeded by
ad hoc change of government decisions.

• The proposed national voice lacks rigour and authority. The proposed model is like the advisory
committees set up to drive the Indigenous Voice Co-Design process, providing advice only, with the
government making final decisions. Excluding the constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice from
the committees’ Terms of Reference lacked transparency and integrity and silenced many voices,
including those on the committees. Further to this, there should be no issues off the table where
government can determine what gets discussed and silences local, regional and national voices, including
youth who should be at the table not represented through an advisory committee.

• There should be opportunities for the constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice to be heard and
to have the government’s support to influence globally e.g. economic development, climate change and
their intersections as they apply to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander (First Nations) peoples in
Australia and across the world.

• Finally, the view that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people will one day transition to a
homogenous state where everyone agrees or can opt in or out or has the capacity to negotiate on an
ongoing basis is discriminatory, naïve and misses the point. No other Australian community or group is
required to go to these lengths to be heard. A constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice would
allow for formal and informal community governance structures to organically evolve over time with
the support of government enabling processes (as identified by community) rather than debilitating
government-driven legacy processes of the past.

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SUBMISSION IN RESPONSE TO INDIGENOUS VOICE CO-DESIGN REPORT AND
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DELILAH MACGILLIVRAY (NEE DOMIC) _ 29 APR 21

Constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice

Over 1,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people were involved in 13 dialogues across Australia which
culminated in a First Nations National Constitutional Convention at Uluru in May 2017. The Uluru Statement
from the Heart is the first time there has been a national consensus on what constitutional change is desired by
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. The Uluru Statement rejects symbolic constitutional recognition
in favour of substantive constitutional reform and calls for a First Nations Voice enshrined in the Constitution
and a Makarrata Commission to supervise a process of agreement-making and truth-telling. These reforms are
known as “Voice. Treaty. Truth”.

I, like many others was not involved in the regional dialogues but I respect the voices of those who were and
the considered decisions they made in the best interest of all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and
wider Australia. It is now being promoted that the Indigenous Co-Design process is reflective of the voices of
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples across Australia. This not only denies the cultural authority of
those who were involved in the regional dialogues but misrepresents the numbers of participants involved in the
Indigenous Voice Co-Design process. For example, ABS Census 2016 shows Rockhampton’s population of
Indigenous peoples at 5,867 Indigenous (5,143 Aboriginal, 359 Torres Strait Islander, 375 both Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander). Only 17 people attended the Rockhampton consultations with a small representation of
Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander peoples. Anecdotal evidence suggests that this has been the case across
Australia, with many of those voices calling for a constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice.

The risk for the proposed legislated Voice is that, without the constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice
driving the process, it will become another short-lived strategy with the capacity to be abolished after the next
government election and become yet another archived document and result in more unfinished business.

PROBLEM (Why we can’t stay here.)
There is a legacy that has been embedded constitutionally since federation where all sides of
government have neglected to show leadership to right the wrongs of the past. It will take a significant multi-
level government paradigm shift and people movement to change State structures and behaviours,
including leadership from Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

The current government strategies are not sustainable because they are designed on legacy thinking and
data; and colonially constructed racist ideologies and narratives based on enforcement and compliance that do
not meet the needs of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander (First Nations) peoples.

A constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice provides the opportunity for a paradigm shift on the
notions of enforcement, compliance and behaviour change in relation to decisions on the design of
future legislation, budgets, programs, policies and procedures.

It is time to create a future preferred state with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander (First Nations)
individuals, family and community voices expressing and defining self-determination on matters that are
important to them. Where all levels of government listen to ‘hear and understand’ First Nations voices and act
on them.

It is time for redesign and to use the constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice to gather local
data to create and design ‘fit for purpose’ products and services to meet holistic social, emotional,
economic, physical, environmental, spiritual and cultural needs of First Nations peoples that will benefit all
Australians.

It is time to redesign the constitution to move from enforcement and compliance to a future state
as determined by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander (First Nations) peoples. To use the culturally
mandated First Nations regional dialogue Voices and other data to design and create a ‘fit for purpose’
constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice to Parliament and complementary legislation
embedded in cultural lore to meet the needs of First Nations peoples that will benefit all Australians.

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SUBMISSION IN RESPONSE TO INDIGENOUS VOICE CO-DESIGN REPORT AND
PROCESS

DELILAH MACGILLIVRAY (NEE DOMIC) _ 29 APR 21

It is time to invert the pyramid to allow Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples (First
Nations) to enforce Federal, State and Local government accountability and compliance through a
constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice to ensure their needs are met.

It is time to listen to the people of Australia to whom the Uluru Statement from the Heart was
gifted. Majority of Australians support a constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice that only the
people can change through referendum. Many Australians are wanting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander (First
Nations) peoples to be recognised in the constitution so that they can also find their place as an Australian.

(See attached Triple E Framework – QPS Delilah MacGillivray Interpretation 2020.) I created this framework
when I worked with Centrelink to try to educate non-Indigenous senior decision-makers who ‘just didn’t get it’
when it came to understanding the impact of legislation and policies affecting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander
individuals, families and communities. I credit my previous colleague from North Queensland for introducing the
green frog and the bike metaphor, where the green frog is culturally and environmentally friendly and flexible
whereas the bike is inflexible not easily bent reminding us to always ask, “Where are the green frog strategies?”

POSSIBILITIES
Option 1

Support the Uluru Statement from the Heart regional dialogues’ consensus on substantive constitutional reform
calling for a First Nations Voice enshrined in the Constitution and a Makarrata Commission to supervise a
process of agreement-making and truth-telling. These reforms are known as “Voice. Treaty. Truth” and the
sequencing is imperative so that past legacy systems, ideologies and narratives as outlined in this document do
not continue.

Advantage:

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander (First Nations) peoples are recognised in the Constitution. All Australians
benefit.

Disadvantage:

None

Option 2

Use lessons learnt from the past to inform and strengthen an enabling legislation for the Voice to Parliament not
Government.

Advantage:

Only if passed after a referendum has been held in the next term of Parliament.

Disadvantage:

Legislating a Voice only without a referendum to constitutionally enshrine a First Nations Voice to Parliament.

Option 3

Do nothing.

Advantage:

None

Disadvantage:

Nothing changes.

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SUBMISSION IN RESPONSE TO INDIGENOUS VOICE CO-DESIGN REPORT AND
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DELILAH MACGILLIVRAY (NEE DOMIC) _ 29 APR 21

PROPOSAL (Where we should go to instead.)
Option 1 is the preferred option.

1. The government must honour its election commitment to a referendum once a model for the Voice
has been settled to ensure that a First Nations Voice to Parliament is protected by the Constitution.

2. Enabling legislation for the Voice must be passed after a referendum has been held in the next term of
Parliament; and

3. The membership model for the National Voice must ensure previously unheard Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Islander people have the same chance of being selected as established leadership figures.

Option 2 – Legislating a Voice only without a referendum is not a preferred option. Option 1 (2) is preferred.

Option 3 – Doing nothing is not a preferred option. The status quo is unsustainable. There is too much
unfinished business which needs a response driven through a constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice.

Page 5|5
Community Engagement )
Maps )
Results of Regional Forums )
Nov – Dec 2004 )
Eidsvold .
Engagement Process Issues Identified
• Eidsvold Round Table . • Youth activities and
• Established by employment.
invitation to . • Strong culture
participants. . • Children and families. .
• 2 Representatives of • Healthy living.
each group for
• Parental involvement
decision making but in education.
many may attend
discussion.
Eidsvold Community Engagement (
Map (

Walli Walli

Wakka Wakka Gurang Gurang

Eidsvold
Round
Table

Local Service Historic Family
Providers Groups
Hervey Bay &
Engagement Process & Issues Identified
• Forum • Youth support –
education, sport,
• Entry point through accommodation.
organisations.
• Elders complex.
invitation to
• Families – single and
participants.
low income.
• Transport to
traditional land.
Hervey Bay Community
Engagement Map
Dugamin CDEP

Korrawinga Aboriginal
Youth Committee
Corporation

Men’s Group

Kalang Elders Committee Language Group

Ghundus Preschool

K’garri Cultural Education
Du Centre Butchella Elders
Maryborough /
Engagement Process / Issues
• Forum • Short term
• Community working accommodation.
together. • Youth programs –
• Notification through diversionary and
organisations and employment (small
advertisement. business).
• . • Health and drugs
Maryborough Community
Engagement Map *

Community
(Advertised)

Undennoo

Kahwun
Maryborough -Wooga
Housing
Coop.
Bundaberg -
Engagement Process - Issues
• Bundaberg Forum • Programs for youth -
• Community working – diversionary.
together. • Stronger Families. -
• Notification through • Access to Health
organisations and Services.
advertisement. • Self Esteem –
• Agreement by culture and identity.
discussion. -
Bundaberg Community
Engagement Map *
Health Accomm.
Economic Training Native
Title

Employment YAAMBA Men’s
Bundaberg/Burnett
Region CDEP Gurang Group
Council
Cultural Employment
Heritage

Gidarjil
Community Bundaberg Health
Support Development
Bundaberg Women’s Group *
Corporation
Forum
Employment Safe
Places
Bundaberg
Bundaberg Elders *
Munjoorun *
Accomm.
Housing
Education * Youth
Council * Issues.
Health
Health
Gladstone -
Engagement Process Issues
• Open forum for - • Safer places.
consultations. - • Economic
• Community members development and
and organisations. - employment.
• Notification through • Young children and
organisations and families.
advertisement. • Strong culture.
Gladstone Community
Engagement Map *

Community
(Advertised) Gladstone
Gehgre ATSI Aboriginal and
Corporation Islander
Coop.

Gladstone
Nhulundu Women’s Indigenous
Wooribah Group Working Group
Mount Morgan &
Engagement Process Issues Identified
• Community meetings. & • Youth activities and
employment.
• &Invitation to
participants through • Health (Substance
Abuse).
organisations and
• Employment
advertising.
opportunities.
Mount Morgan Community
Engagement Map &

Mount Morgan &
Aboriginal Cooperative &

Calliungal Youth Centre

Community Members &
(Advertisement) &
Rockhampton .
Engagement Process Issues
• Issues based forum . • Strong culture.
for consultations. . • Young children and
• Organisations families.
identified for • Healthy living.
representation. • Economic
• Community members development.
invited to attend • Safer communities. .
through
advertisement.
Issues Based Community
Engagement Map- Rockhampton %
Community
(Advertised)
Fitzroy Basin Dreamtime
Elders Cultural Centre.

Strong
Culture

Darumbal Central
Traditional Queensland
Owners Association for
Media.
Bush TV
Issues Based Community
Engagement Map- Rockhampton %
Fitzroy Basin Community
Elders (Advertised) SAIMA.

Darumbal
Young
Traditional
Children and
Owners Bidgerdii
Families

AICCA Gungula
Palm Tree Darumbal
Waters Youth
Issues Based Community
Engagement Map- Rockhampton %
Community
(Advertised)
Gumbi Healum Yumbah
Gumbi

Healthy
Living

Rockhampton
All Blacks Bidgerdii

Dreamtime
Millbi Cultural
Centre
Issues Based Community
Engagement Map- Rockhampton %
Bunaroo Community
CDEP (Advertised) Rockhampton
Enterprise
Centre
Yulla Munah
Economic
Development

Darumbal
Youth Bidgerdii

Murri
Dreamtime
Support
Cultural
Network
Centre
Issues Based Community
Engagement Map- Rockhampton %
Community
(Advertised)
Michael Hayes
Neville Bonner Centre
Centre
Safer
Communities

Milbi

Buderaoo
CDEP
Emerald +
Engagement Process Emerald Community Engagement Map (

• Community members
Community
invited to attend Picanninny
(Advertised)
Group
through +
advertisement. +

Issues
• Families and culture.
Clermont ,
Engagement Process Clermont Community Engagement Map )
• Community members
invited to attend. ,
• , Contact point is Sandy
Creek. Sandy Creek
Aboriginal ,
Issues and Torres Strait ,
Islander ,
• , Young Children and Corporation ,
Families.
• , Healthy Living.
• , Economic Development. ,
Blackwater .
Engagement Process
Blackwater Community
• Community members Engagement Map *

invited to attend.

Advertisement .
Issues placed to bring .
community together. .
• Strong culture.
• Education and
families.
• Safe places.
Barcaldine .
Engagement Process .
• . Community members invited Barcaldine Community
to attend. Engagement Map *
• . Contact through Central
Western Aboriginal
Corporation.
Central .
Issues Western . Community
• . Education – self development . Aboriginal (Advertised)
• . Economic development and Corporation.
employment.
• . Substance Abuse.
• . Engaging with youth.
Tambo+
Engagement Process
Tambo Community
• Community members Engagement Map &

invited to attend.

Issues Community +
• Housing (Advertised) +

• Education
Winton +
Engagement Process
• + Community members invited Winton Community
to attend. Engagement Map &
• + Contact through Winton District
Aboriginal Corporation.
Issues
• + Education Outcomes Winton +
• + Health – substance abuse. District + Community
• + Employment for school Aboriginal (Advertised)
leavers. Corporation.
• + Culture – respect and self
esteem.
Longreach -
Engagement Process
• - Community members invited Longreach Community
to attend. Engagement Map *
• - Contact through Longreach
Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander Corporation for
Housing and Business. Longreach Aboriginal -
Issues and Torres Strait - Community
• - Employment. Islander (Advertised)
Corporation for
• - Young children and families. - Housing and Business. -
• - Safer communities.
• - Employment.
• - Economic development.
CONSTITUTIONALLY ENSHRINED FIRST NATIONS VOICE TO PARLIAMENT

EDUCATION ENGINEERING ENFORCEMENT
Current Design Current Design Current Design
Old data and information Federal, State, Local Government, non-government, Constitution (based on a colonial ideology without First Nations)
(legacy thinking and data) corporate and other private and public institutions,
legislation, programs, services, funding models and State systems designed on the same ideology, with a flow on effect
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander decision-making designed from a colonial enforcement to the design of ineffective:
community controlled and led ideology and narrative that do not meet the needs of First
organisations and peak bodies. Nations peoples. • Legislation, Regulations, Acts, Standards
• Policies and Procedures
The 13 First Nations culturally Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission (ATSIC) • Budgets and constraints
mandated regional dialogues that led set up to represent First Nations people able to be • Funding allocations and contractual arrangements
to the Uluru Statement from the abolished at the whim of the government of the day. Racist • Front line and back-office systems
Heart and a call for a First Nations legislation like the Northern Territory Emergency • Compliance and Evaluation frameworks
Voice enshrined in the Constitution Response (NTER) that breached the United Nations
• Decision-making dominated by a mainstream,
and a Makarrata Commission to Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP)
hierarchical decision-making matrix without First
oversee a process of agreement- written and implemented overnight without consultation.
Nations peoples sitting at the table
making and truth-telling. (Voice,
• Unethical and/or inappropriate decision-making
Treaty, Truth) say these A legacy that has been embedded constitutionally since
behaviour.
organisations and peak bodies do federation where all sides of government have neglected
not represent their voices on the to show leadership to right the wrongs of the past. It will
ground. take a significant multi-level government paradigm shift and
people movement to change State structures and
(the bike – inflexible not easily bent – Kathy Lakatos)
behaviours, including leadership from PM Morrison.
Future preferred state Redesign – Green Frog Strategies Redesign – Green Frog Strategies
User Experience data Use the constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice Use the culturally mandated First Nations regional dialogue Voices
(new ways of thinking and working to gather local data to create and design ‘fit for purpose’ and other data to design and create a ‘fit for purpose’
together locally – co-designing) products and services to meet holistic social, emotional, constitutionally enshrined First Nations Voice to
economic, physical, environmental, spiritual and cultural Parliament and complementary legislation embedded in
Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait needs of First Nations peoples that will benefit all cultural lore to meet the needs of First Nations peoples that will
Islander (First Nations) individuals, Australians. benefit all Australians.
family and community voices
expressing and defining self-
determination on matters that are
important to them. Listening to
‘hear and understand’ First Nations
voices and acting on it.
(green frog – culturally and
environmentally friendly and flexible
– Kathy Lakatos)

Source: Triple E
Framework – QPS
Delilah MacGillivray
CHANGED BEHAVIOURS
Interpretation 2020

K